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 | cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI 
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2003-05-10 54634
OK guys - got a little surprise today. Wanted to wash my Boomer after mowing - parked it - set the brake - and shut it off. I was on a slight incline on my driveway. When done - climbed on - tried to start - then realized I was in 2nd range (not nuetral). Put it in nuetral - and started it. Released the parking brake. Pushed the reverse hydro pedal (forgetting I was in nuetral) and the tractor started to move backwards as expected- then kept gaining speed - I pressed the forward hydro pedal to no avail (not expected) then with a frantic desperate move - I slammed on the rear brakes (no the fronts did not come up - was not going that fast). Gents - have been running hydros for years - something just didn't click right away. I lost about 1.5 seconds before reacting properly. No harm but had to share to get others to think of this. We get so used to using the hydro as a brake, and we can't really use the individual brakes (on wrong side) so we forget about the brakes unless we are setting them as the parking brake. Make sense - if not - read this message until you get it. Hate to see someone roll over something or someone :(.
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley 
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2003-05-11 54645
I think this is the same subject as a recent discussion where a range lever was bumped into neutral, but the results were milder. Me being a gear-head myself, commented at the time that maybe us gear folks operate with a little more caution since we can't depend on braking.
I don't know if HST's that use a variable displacement motor for the ranges and a variable displacement pump for the speed pedal have braking when the range is in neutral but it seems a better design if they do. You'd think that manufacturers who seem to be safety interlocking everything is sight would attend to this issue as well. Good thing you were only on a slight incline. Being a gear-head, I tend to sit the bucket and implement on the ground whenever I stop and probably set the parking brake as well. I'd probably get out of the habit if I used a HST.
On the other hand, if I had a HST I probably wouldn't have to slow down as I come the top of hills when I road the tractor. If I don't and I'm carrying much of a load, I have to use the barely effective tractor brakes to hold the speed down on the other side of the hill. Down shifting a diesel just doesn't do much for braking like with a gas engine--especially since I'm already near max rpm in high gear. I suppose that could be safety issue as well.
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 | DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-05-11 54650
CDCole, I really appreciate you tale. I have done exactly the same thing but fortunately it didn't get away.
My ongoing, but getting better, struggle stems from the fact I have two tractors which receive about equal usage. One is a gear transmission and the other is HST.
There is a cognitive dissonance that occurs when the tractor does not stop by releasing the pedal as usual.
I think it takes about three times longer than the normal reaction time to shift your brain out of autopilot and do something else to stop the tractor. ....
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| cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI
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2003-05-11 54683
Tom,
You of course are right. The Boomer does not offer any hydro braking when in nuetral. My JD 318 Garden Tractor did offer the braking effect - but it only had one range.
In any case - it should not happen again as I will religiously be prepared to hit the brakes.
It was really scary - and if any of you would have personally felt what I felt - I guarantee you would heed the warning. Results could have been catastrophic.
Sincere Thoughts.
Cliff ....
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 | Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2003-05-11 54687
I guess I am not sure why you need to take the hydro out of gear to start. This is certainly not the case on my JD. It does not seem like a very good safety item.
My main mistake with the hydro when I first got it was parking it with out the brake on. I stopped the tractor and then walked away and my roofing crew started yelling at me. I turned around and the tractor rolled away down a hill. The tractor rolled down the bank and back up the next rise a little to a stop, but did not get moving too fast. I was laughed at but certainly could have been far worst if parked over a bank etc. ....
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| DRankin
Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 5116 Northern Nevada
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2003-05-11 54690
My BX will not engage the starter unless it is in between the rabbit and the turtle. ....
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| TomG
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5406 Upper Ottawa Valley
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2003-05-12 54701
I guess nobody is every a completely reliable operator and no design where the tractor is reasonable to operate is going to be foolproof at saving us from ourselves.
I remember an 'OOPS I'm going too fast in reverse' situation. I jammed on the brakes as a first reaction before hitting the clutch. Trouble was that I had been brake steering so the latch plate was still up and I only hit one brake pedal. The tractor started taking off across the yard at a fair clip before I clutched it. Lucky I was far enough from a fence so the loader didn't come around and take a section out.
Gear-heads sort of have an opposite problem. There's quite a few maintenance jobs that are very convenient to do while a tractor is idling (you can't grease all fittings on most loaders and backhoes without repositioning them). The safety stuff says 'always sit everything on the ground and shut off the engine whenever the operator leaves the seat.' It's impossible to comply completely, and even trying would wear out a bunch of starters. So I leave the tractor idling but I know there's a risk of bumping the tractor into gear while working on it I haven't done anything like that yet but I remind myself of the potential from time to time. I do remember that I went to shut the engine down once while standing beside the tractor (another no no) and realized that I had the steering column shifter rather than the hand throttle in my hand. That would have been an 'OOPS the tractor just ran over my foot or worse' situation.
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| cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI
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2003-05-13 54829
That 1.5 second lapse was really scary. Glad that someone else can relate. My son will be mowing soon - I will stress the point over and over...along with a million other points :) ....
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| cdcole
Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 66 Saukville, WI
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2003-05-13 54830
Peters,
Looked at your pictures - nice.
Please explain image 1. Looks like a 5th wheel parked between two garages covered by a pole barn roof and a ramp leading up to the parking spaces. WOW!
Cliff ....
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| Peters
Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 3034 Northern AL
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2003-05-13 54834
CD
The pictures are of my most recent barn build. I built over an old foundation for the house. The barn is 60 x 40. I placed a wing walls on the edge of the center bay to strength the structure. We are in tornado alley we have had 3-4 in close proximity in the last 3 years. I figured that I wanted to protect my investment.
Peters ....
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